Well this post is about thedicussion..as it happend in my ORKUT scrap book...I believe we have good debate going,despite the usual orkut space constraints.The points, opinions..issues..concern as raised by the participants are not only noteworthy, but also offer definitive insight into what the educated youth of today thinks..understands and feels on the 'Reservation' issue. So here it is..the complete discussion as it happened..well to be honest really.....its still very much 'ON'.
A brief lowdown on the participants who shared their two cents :
The participants are mostly my friends from college (Engineering)..others are the ones I met on the ORKUT/PagalGuy space. Now most of these guys are graduates(read Btech's)......with the exception of some having completed their PG as well.
The discussion..(unedited version)---------
@Piyush : Inspiring...
@Chuck : Dude! Excellently written. I would recommend you join
http://www.augustfury.com/You will find articles like yours... some are excellently written... Give it a go... You will be surprised by what you read... amazing stuff... believe me.
Again, well done. Superbly written.
@Sandeep : It affects my country so I can not remain indifferent to it.My question is why would you write it ... what did you achieve ??I am not sure...what would self immolation achieve either ??
Heard a person with a banner saying...I have not voted since I was 18..but now I will vote against Congress.. I guess he should also be held responsible for this. The question is not about pointing fingers, but the question is about finding solution.
I know you would hate me for writing this but this is what my opinion is.
@Jaldeep : i support the sentiment....the whole thing is just one big foolish idea...but i guess as sandy said ....where is the solution??? I guess as students and working professionals we have not come up with single whitepaper saying ...that these are the alternatives...CII made an effort to justify why there should not be reservation and they made their case...but i wonder in all this melee of dharnas and fasting has someone thought beyond the rollback...the policy is give and take and we better put alternatives out there which can work... a well written article.
@Tushar : Totally agree with JD. Just a clarification though. I had received a sms saying that a doctor had died in protest. Thats actually not true.
@Me(Abhishek) : Response to Sandy's (sandeep) post--
Well I am not averse to a difference in opinion here mate as long as it has logical basis ,is in an open domain and up for discussion ..so no probs with that. What prompted me to write the article was the fact... that i wanted to put across to most of us 'junta', that its not yet a DONE deal......as Arjun Singh says....Its still an open question which requires a discussion. What I acheieved by writing this article ....is that i prompted a response from you....and the rest..by making you realise...that if uptill now you felt..." Yeah its sad...its happening this way....What can I do about it ??" then its time now....that u ACT..for this has huge bearing on ur social security as well. Its your OWN CAUSE NOW.....dont do it anymore.. for sum guy dhoing dharna @ AIIMS campus.
As for whats the solution .....we all in our smart ways know the answer to this question. My personal take on it....I have solutions....and I believe they can be made to work....unlike the reservations..!
Well ...true..we havent lost anybody in this cause ... YET If i may say so....! thankfully Subash Srivastav is still with us....but do we have to wait for one Mr Subash Srivastav to die in the process ....for us to give it a serious thought or say do sumthing collectively....!?????That is the question I asked myself......when i wrote the article...and that is the very question i ask all of you now....!
@Me : I am going to take each post/scrap individually and respond.....the answers or so to say my posts can also be found on my blog...as well..!
@Me : Response to Jaldeep and Tushar's post:--
As for the GIVE and TAKE policy.....personally I dont agree with it...I dont like cutting deals... then again ..its my personal take. In this case....u must realise...that the government of India... dint give/offer any freebies to the 'GENERAL category'. So I ask you.. now...what 'takeaways'... have they offered you in concrete...when they proposed such a policy.( for god sake.....they havent even got the figures right...and dont even have the right reasons... for doing dumthing like this!)As for my answer's or solutions to the problem..with time...they too will come in the open sphere for dicsussion and debate. I fully support and encaourage your call for a white paper from working professionals and students....sumthing which is much more concrete. I would request you..along with the rest.. to come up with ur suggestions..... Let see how far we can take this ...and justify our cause and our demands !!! Where we go from there on...is a 'choice' we will have to make.
@Nitin :Well, I also used to think like you and many others. But some events and facts changed my way of thinking. You can get a gist from below text from one of my college profs:
"The easiest way to trash these politicians is to talk about vote-bank politics. But pray, what are the politicians there for - to do politics or do philanthropy? Since the weaker sections constitute the majority of the population why should the politicians not cater to them?
Has anyone ever thought why it's always North Indians who get worked up on this issue and why the agitation takes place only in North India?. South India has been living for long
successfully with reservations and in my native Bengal (which is the most casteless state we have in India) no one has heard about OBCs. Does it mean merit is the sole prerogative of the North Indians and only they are concerned with the well-being of the country?
Please take a very hard look inside and try to find the answers yourself ( Why this part of the country has produced relatively much lesser no. of social reformers and shows the maximum resistance to any social change?).
All this agitation and signing of petitions is futile and bound to end in failure. If this government doesn't implement it, the next one (may be of the BJP) will do it. IITs and IIMs are certainly elitist institutions and a miniscule portion of the population appear for their entrance exams. No political party will support the anti-reservationists and it will never generate the passion of Mandal I of the 1990."
@Chuck: Great discussion going on here, buddy. I hope you've checked out AugustFury. It's not a perfunctory referral. I really mean it. Especially the thread about reservations. There are some totally incredible posts there. You'll see what I mean.
Great job, again.
Did you read the article in the Hindu today? Center page? The 'points' system thing? It' a novel idea, but implementation will take ages. We know that fake OBC certificates are a thriving underground business, and is one reason we are not getting full support - some of the 'general' category students will be for reservation, because they rely on such sleazy methods to get into institutes. If the points thing is implemented, it will cause another furure - fake income
certificates. Your dad could be earning 1 lakh a month, but you can easily get an income cert saying you are BPL.
I certainly think the proposal is a novel one - certainly very different, but implementation will take lots of planning and thinking. And looking at the bastards who run our government now, they will be totally incapable of doing it and will make a total mess of it, unless the job is assigned to someone else, like the people who wrote the article itself. One of the authors was Yogendra Yadav, the psephologist.
@Viresh : Written well ! Fwding this text to my friends -- i am sure this will be a good motivation.
@Me :.............Since a lot of the folks out there are reading this stuff..I'd like to bring certain facts into open sphere of discussion. I am in NO WAY anti OBC or SC/ST..its just that i dont believe that extra reservation is a means to their upliftment in the society. My whole purpose of raking up the issue..is to generate awarness on the merit of the reservation system , to discuss the pros and cons and possibly help reach an acceptable solution which has a solid foundation.
@Me : Response to Nitin's post -
I am going to respond to this the only way I know...now with all due respect..wether u wish to pass it to the Prof from IIT,is absolutely your decision.
"Since the weaker sections constitute the majority of the population why should the politicians not cater to them?"
It has still not been empirically or so to say demographically established and published by a credible source, that OBC's make up to be the majority of the population in this country.( Just for reference..the Mandal committee had the put the figure as 49%....subsequently upon second review it was found out to be..28%..... the third or the latest consensus agrees to a much a lower figure of 24 %).
Prof - "Has anyone ever thought why it's always North Indians who get worked up on this issue and why the agitation takes place only in North India?. South India has been living for long successfully with reservations and in my native Bengal (which is the most casteless state we have in India) no one has heard about OBCs. Does it mean merit is the sole prerogative of the North Indians and only they are concerned with the well-being of the country? "
Well we have agitations happening all over the country..don't we..and yes like you Sir ..it baffles me too..how come its only the North Indians who are the only ones visibly concerned with the country's well being !! Moreover what works more in favour of this country...???
a. promoting an OBC candidate even though....even when he is undeserving and a misfit due to lack of ORGANIC growth.
b or promoting the best candidate available, irrespective of caste/ religion /faith .? (Just for information sake....lets always remember that... they wont lower the height of the 'bar' in the Pole vault competition at the forth coming OLYMPICS jsut coz we have 50 % OBC's in our team. )
As to why South India..has been living successfully with 'reservation'..well what can i say ??...If they can put up with 'AMMA' (read-Jayalalitha) for decades togeather...then I guess reservations must have been the least of their headaches'....else maybe they are too domesticted by nature or by societal/political structure....here I must say... your guess is as good as mine. (Id like to add here that...How successfull have the reservations been over the past 50 yrs....??? How and why ??..is still under the scope of investigation and dicussion.)
"Please take a very hard look inside and try to find the answers yourself ( Why this part of the country has produced relatively much lesser no. of social reformers and shows the maximum resistance to any social change?)."
Forgive me for saying this...but I see no merit In the above said statement..apart from the fact that it can only lead to further regionalism or factionalism in the context of this very discussion... which is certainly not sumthing that id promote in this debate. As for reason for 'resistance' in North India with regards to reservations is because........we dont see reservations solving the problem....its just a 'force fit' solution. Its in no way the ORGANIC soltuion.....which solves
the very divide by the doing groundwork at the very begining. Reservations...only Highlight governments inability to bring about grass root reforms.
" If this government doesn't implement it, the next one (may be of the BJP) will do it."
Yes Sir..... I am well aware of the fact that all the 'cronies' or 'goons' (read our politicians) are in it togeather. They all made 'reservation promises togeather and want to reap benefits togeather. Thats 'y' I suggested a total INDIA wide JAM...lets bring the house down (dissolve the parliament)...no point going for re-poll upon mid-session crisis.....we might as well go in for President' Rule.
Sounds stupid....I have no better alternative...... i just dont trust these bastards with my future anymore !
"IITs and IIMs are certainly elitist institutions and a miniscule portion of the population appear for their entrance exams."
Thank you.... there is nothing better than having this fact validated by an IIT professor. Now come to think of it...what fraction of this population is OBC...considerably small in indeed.What I am trying to highlight here is that.....not many OBC's reach this point to avail the benefits of reservation. So I ask you ...what the point of BLOCKING 50 % seats in the name of reservation. spare them......focus on resolving grass root problems than seeking an 'inorganic' end solution of placing a non deserving candidate.
"No political party will support the anti-reservationists and it will never generate the passion of Mandal I of the 1990."
Well they are not there to do any good and we all know that by now....fact of the matter is.. they want reservations....for the 'creamy layer' among the OBC's the ones who live in modern INDIA...and still dont wanna slug it out like the common man in the 'General Category'. Lets face it..these political parties dont want reservation to upliftment their OBC brothers ..they DONT want that part to happen at all...NOT TODAY NOT TOMMOROW..and NOT for another 100 yrs..else whose gonna vote for them. The educated class doesnt vote for them anymore...for that matter this class doesnt vote for ANYONE ANYMORE.
This discussion in my scrap book or the furore on the street....is not to garner support from people....its about voicing our opinion which is our right under constitution and fight for whats truly an injustice being carried out to benefit one part of the society at the cost of the other.
@Nitin : Nice stats. But the point he was trying to make was clarifying the politician's point of view that he is NOT a philanthropist. And even if he were, he has to be in power to make changes. And to be in power he wants votes. I would say they r right in it. But my point is, if u say that they r not good and what they r doing is not correct, why not stand up and vote for your choice of a leader?If u can collect the following stats, u would realize what I'm trying to convey. From the total votes, the majority is OBCs, not from the total population. And that's right. How many times have u voted? If we, the IT junta, the young gen of India, stand up and vote each time, I'm sure, the scneario will change. If instead of sitting and abusing them, we can contribute in the formation of OUR government by either voting actively, or by joining the politics, I'm sure we can contribute to come change that we wish to see in our government.
PS: By 'you', I meant the general junta in the discussion and not any1 in particular .
@Nitin : Just a clarification.Whatever I say, I don't mean what our politicians are doing is right. I'm just restating their purpose behind it. The alternative that I can think of for upliftment of backward classes is the need isreservation in primary education. Do read this article by Rashmi Bansal for some more views and facts.
Abhishek, for your other questions, I too believe that option b is better for the country. But do you think that the OBCs are capable enough to clear the merit when they do not have their primary education in place. So the solution is not quota in higher education. It can be more schools specifically for OBCs in backward villages like in Bihar (full of OBCs) or reservation in government schools.
Do let me know if I'm able to convey my point. And also if you disagree to it.
@Me : Q1: The fact that educated class isnt 'voting' anymore....is the root cause of the problem ????Answer : Read the article again buddy.....! I ask you the but obvious question again. Whom do u vote for when.....all the parties are pro-reservation?? Tell me ...now?? Now when this has been established...u tell me....constitutionally.. how can u acheive. a sudden suspension of the government working midsession...to ensure that the government in power should not be able to pass this law. ?? If u think u got a better idea....than what I basically suggested....which is a ' NATION WIDE HALT or JAM ' ...then I am all ears here champ!
@Me : U and I are both well aware that votes-> voters-> power... all happen to be part of a vicious circle. I agree with the logic u present forth ...how lack of smart votes base...and the fact that nowdays its more dominant OBC voter base...resulting in polticians trying to woo them. All said and done....but then again reservation as never a solution...it was meant to be a 'QuickFix' solution. If they promised them this...then it was a wrong call....considering the rest 50% are affected by this.
As for reservations in primary education...I dont approve of any govt school practicing anti-OBC bias. If this is NOT prevalent...then i dont see the need for OBC reservation at primary school level. If Private school's maintain such a bais....then we need to look into this.
We need affirmative/corrective action on existing and sum new policies,RESERVATION
is not an option here.
@Me : Here's another interesting perspective on the entire fiasco ...Thanks Kaushik for contributing.
@Nitin : Yes I think that's the correct term to be used. "Affirmative Action" as Rashmi Bansal puts it as opposed to "Reservation". Hope you've gone through that article. It puts forth an interesting point of view.
@Me : When I say AFFIRMATIVE ACTION here....mind you ..by no means...am I putting
across RESERVATION euphmistically. To me reservation....and corrective measures are
seperate and different.
@Diksha : I dunno how much you would agree with me but all set and done u need to appreciate where an SC/ST student is coming from and the amount of effort he puts in to reach an IIT or an IIM. There is a huge difference in our accessibility to resources and theirs and therefore missing the chance of studying at IIT just coz the student missed out on a few precious marks doesn't make sense to me. Although I do agree that the "creamy layer" in this category should be devoid of any further reservations. Our idea of reservation is to integerate different sections of society and thus the section which has reaped from the benefits of the socialist policies of this country need to now move on and fetch for themselves.
Factually this section is well represented, however the government is looking for short cuts to success, unfortunately there are no shortcuts. The affirmative action this government is trying to undertake should on the contrary be undertaken at the Primary level where the infrastructure is shoddy, the resources are lacking and the representation is insignificant. Standardize education and integrate children there…and then help the society move forward. However this wouldn’t happen overnight…thus up till then small actions like reservation would certainly help the cause.
@Jaldeep : There can never be a solution there is always a compromise which is amicable to both the parties. The reason I used Give and take phrase is if we give them solutions to choose from they might opt for one. As part of General Category you, me and lot of other folks have gone through the angst of missing that coveted seat slip by a margin of hair.
Honestly speaking this country needs reservations but for the economically backward set of folks not on caste based. I agree that they are at a disadvantage and maybe they should be given a chance. This however does not discount the fact the very idea of reservation is lunacy. If you give reservations it implicitly implies that government has failed in setting up a strong education system where regardless of the school he comes from he will have the same exposure.
The solution lies in the fact that the government should focus more on its core policies for uplifting the society and with growing population increase the seats at all level so that the competition does not become crazy like hell as it is becoming year on year The solution I propose is utopian. However the politicians have never tried to get the poor out of misery and this very same set of folks cannot be expected to turnaround so catch 22
@Sandeep : my question still remains the same:HOW ? WHEN ?
I am an illiterate whatever...dunno.
Lets break this issue into bits:
What is the issue: Upliftment of socially / economically deprived in tearms of all parts of the society. How did this issue come up: Because of people like you and me. Mind you..now it is in our mindset. Earlier sati was considered normal per the Hindu clergy. now School Donations are considered normal per any parent who has the moolah and wants to see his kid do well. CHANGE THAT.
When did this happen: It is happening every single second. Even now when we are chatting.
How to resolve it: BIG ONE:CHANGE THE SYSTEM. Change ourselves. Change yourself. Promise that you will not bribe the THULLA with a 100 Rs note the next time you drive fast. Promise that you won't let anyone take bribe. promise that you will not pay donation for your
kid...even if he were to study from a government school. If you can promise, the battle is half won.
@Piyush : adding on... know wot dude... i was havin this chat wid bro sometime back...50+ years are i guess enough time for upliftment of any part of the society... and now its high time that these ppl are made to be treated equally. instead of increasing their quotas, we should actually be lookin to remove the current one (or at least reduce it!)But no! the governemnt and Arjun Singh in particular have I dunno wot sense in even bringing this up for thought! Let alone passin the bill. If there are enlightened ppl in the parliament, this monsoon session wen this bill comes up for discussion, is sure as hell gonna be one raucous one. I just hope sanity prevails among these ppl!I've had the misfortune of seeing a great friend lose out on a seat in enineering
by just the whisker of an eyelid! Admissions closed on rank 869... and this bloke was rank 870! And now u look at increasin the quotas! This is absolutely crap!And wot Sandy is sayin here is absolutely correct man!
This aint no one stop solution for the practices that plague the society... and its not gonna work overniht too! Its a slow and steady reform that needs to get in within our skins! You've got to believe in it first urself before it actually starts filterin down further among ur circle of frnds...Its all well spoken and discussed... But then apart from all that is happenin across the country... I guess its high time our generation takes this issue up as well!Every rose has its thorn too mate! and i aint sayin that this road to that elusive state is gonna be one smooth one... trust me its gonna be far from that! But then someone does need to make a start... right? and u've heard of the phrase "charity begins at home". Its time now to get this in action dude!Trust me each individual can make a difference!
@Me:MORE BAD NEWS !!
News as seen on TV yesterday evening::::
"Government plans to introduce and pass the new reservation bill in this monsoon session. They are looking forward to having it implemented in the 2007 session."
Very sad indeed....after 50 yrs we are all set to be divided again....on the basis of CASTE.. this time...that too in modern INDIA. Now with this happening.....I say we got very limited options left... I call for NATION WIDE CHUKKA JAM on a predecided date( stoppage of all service except ones under ESMA and Emergency hospitals)....everything's gotta stop..... from sensex to the local panwari shop...and this has to happen right NOW & real fast !! The government wants to run away with i even before anything big gets mobilised..... Lets freaking stop them
first.....and then look forward to reasoning it out with them !
Does any one have a better idea...at this poit in time......????
@Me : FOCUS Guys.....! I completely agree with u both (Piyush and Sandy)...when the talk abt the problems at the grass root level......and how they can only be solved with change in MINDsets.. but ask urself again what is the problem issue at hand....??
Is it whats ailing the society ???( issues like corruption, econnomic inequality etc??) and how to wipe it off the face of mother INDIA???2. OR say the fact that reservation....is the new face of evil...ready to take over the country and undo the good work done over the last 50 yrs.??
Lets take it one by one...we cannot solve it all togeather....in one go...we all are well aware of that.
@Ravneet : May I digress and suggest that people read a book called "Everybody loves a good drought - by P. Sainath" if you can lay your hands on it. I dont agree with the reservation bill in its entirety, but my stand is neutral leaning towards pro-reservation. Here are a few disjointed takes:
1) reservation for the not so economically deprived amongst the OBCs - Not Acceptable
2) reservation for SC/ST, very much for it. They are people who have never been on equal footing. There are students who struggle through high school in places like Jabua which I am sure you have never even heard of. These are places with dropout rates in excess of 70%. If some guy here burns the midbnight oil(because mind you there is no electricity) and travels 2 kms on foot everyday to reach school, I am all for giving him a helping hand to get him a graduate degree.
3) If the quota of seats reserved for SC/ST/OBC does not fill up(reference thapar's interview with Arjun Singh), they should be open for the general category. Amend the constitution if that is what it takes. But let no seat lie vacant in any recognized institute of higher learning. We need as many educated minds around as possible.
4) Seats which are popularly known as 'capitation fee seats' or 'paid seats', what about those? Dont they cut into the seats which a candidate(economically backward be it general or SC/ST/OBC) can not dream of affording? How come we have never had protests against those?
5) I have had a good number of friends who have chosen the medical profession. I know exactly how bad the state is for PG studies in medicine. Ask these striking undergrads, how many of them are looking forward to writing GRE/USMLE/and that other exam for UK/Australia and the ilk. And then ask them a second question. How many of them have religiously spent the 2 months in villages which is a pre-requisite for their internships? Its easy to demand rights from the state? Has anyone of them ever thought of giving back? 2 months from a career spanning 40 years and $$$$$ ? ..Nevertheless higher education in the field of medicine needs serious rework. Now add to this another elite group.
The people passing out from IITs and IIMs and opting for MS and foreign placements in investment banks. The reservation of seats in these institutes, I believe should be as much as the number of people who chose to not stay back in the country after graduating. Collect statistics, and implement equitable reservation. If the count is upward of 50%, so be it.
@Me :Ravneet.... as always..thanks for bringing out 'the other side' of the issue...really appreciate the content ,issues, the question asked.. !
I intend to respond to sum of the points that u have raised.....to the rest I agree whole heartedly.
Sumhow...I get a feeling that ur mixing up corrective/affirmitive action (which requires to be done. PERIOD !!!) with the entire logic behind RESERVATION (blocking of seats or offering seats first to OBCs then to anyother category). Everyone here on this forum....is pro affirmitve action.....but sumhow dont believe in choosing a smaller evil or say lesser of the two evils (read reservation) to kill the bigger ones( such as poverty/ economic inequality/ corruption etc)...Think about it !!!
It just doesnt work this....way..... 50 yrs henceforth our Independence...our current state of affairs..the fact we still havent managed to close the gap..or so to say bridge the divide....is enuff reason to believe so.
@Ravneet : The debate as of now is in too nascent a stage, with the parties being affected most directly and in the immediate future raising a hue and cry about it. Amongst the rest, a lot of people are getting driven by emotion and in the post-RDB enthusiasm, choosing to stand against reservations. My only appeal to everybody that I discuss this with is, that get the facts right, push for a review, and do not reject the idea outright, because there is a reality of India which either we are unaware of(mostly) or choose to ignore. The bill being passed in a haste is
indeed a retrogressive move. And I am all for protesting it. Because this is an issue, which the educated India has just become sensitive to. Let us see through the facts and logic, thrash it around, and then decide on the policy required.
@ Me : I second the thoughts and views as put forth by Ravs....yes post RDB ..we ( the public) do tend to oscillate more between whats actually 'right'( the democratic way) to what's the 'only available solution.' ( shoot'em all ....bastards!!).
On my bad days..I still feel, the easy way out is .."Shoot'em all...Politicians!".
We have all the time to do our reviews and re-reviews..... but for now....how do we stop the BILL from getting passed this monsoon session. I just feel all the logic and reasoning is all a waste.......if they can ignore Sam Pitroda and his knowledge commission report , shove it in the dustbin without batting an eyelid. They might as well do the same to our 'white paper' just about now....
I say..lets do it the BONG way......for once I agree with the communist and the Marxist's put togeather.....'Reservation Cholbe Noi' .......'Cholbe Noi'...'Cholbe Noi'...not being funny here ! It works guys ...!! We would need to do this on the streets....sooner or later!!
@ Me: Guys.... adding summore stuff into the discussion arena...
Check this link out...interesting data...n pass it on for awareness...
http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm?q=sp&file=.htm@Me : Okay..news is out...MUSLIMs want their reservation too....'eunuchs' in mumbai...say they pay taxes too and are a minority ...hence ask for minority reservation of two percent!!!! I hope everyone pro-reservation...for any XYZ reason and any XYZ community, is reading this stuff... and i sincerely hope you guys got serious answers now...coz look NOW..what we have gotten into ..!!
Okay at the risk of sounding like a 'masochist' or a 'sadist'....considering....'general category' is going to be a minority soon....I suggest we concentrate..on a white paper...asking for minority rights to reservation.....Lets play this 'game' their way now..!
@Sandeep : Choudhury(me) have a quick question for you and other who are reading /writing into your scrap: HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU VOTE ...?
I have voted just once, therefore I do not have the right to say much in here...
@Me :I have voted twice...if my memory serves me correctly here !!!(this one time..I distinctly remember...I was one of the last few guys to enter the booth..the 1st observer @ the booth telling the other observer that sumone has already casted a vote against my name....as a smart solution...I was made to vote against sumone else's name...what can I say.....was just too amused to say anything or complain for that matter !)
@Sandeep :
:)
What I am trying to say is.. lets not pin point fingers. If we have to..lets start with ourselves... You just committed a crime per the Indian Constitution The problem is deep within the root. And that is our mindset. I do not favor the bill...but what I am tryng to say is WHAT NEXT. If the bill is not passed, then WHAT NEXT. Are you willing to shell out 1 weekend per month for the next 20 years of your life to visit villages and work for a good cause .... or wanna let lose by
saying I pay TAXES for the government to take care of it ??
@Me :Good Question......!! Lets see what 'junta' has to offer to this one...raised by you !
@Sandeep : I am not eyeing you in person. I am trying to get to the root cause, Even I am a defaulter.I would rather thank the govt. to coome with such ideas to wake us frm our reverie... But are we really AWAKE. Or are we making sure that our arse is safe when it comes to education / employment. I guess we owe the SC/ ST/ OBC's as much as we owe the govt. What is our contribution to that ? JUST TAXES !! its not the junta...you answer for yourself...and not on the scrap but to yourself..Then we will go to the Junta...once we make sure that we are correct... Remember you can't teach FoCS if you don't know it...
@Me : well personally! I see not point wallowing in either extremes...( i dont intend to wash my hands of the entire isuue of helping anyone suffering from economic inequality. (here.mind you i see no point in checking wether Mr X here is OBC or not!)... nor am I going to pledge 1 weekend for the next 20 yrs) ....I am looking at more concrete steps....with a collective effort from the government, the society and the corporate world.......we need everyone to contribute here....its
not going to be any one man's perrogative... to solve this problem.
As for knowing what to do....and walking the talk...well i know what I have to do...dont know about the rest of us here on this forum.
All I can say at this point in time is.....HOPE FLOATS.....!!
Do read this....
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/25spec1.htm@ Me : We,the youth of India appeal to the conscience of all Indians and ask them to join our movement and protest against reservation and start a NON CO-OPERATION MOVEMENT.Join us on 27th May for "DELHI AAO DESH BACHAO MAHA RALLY".It will start from Vir Bhumi to Ramlila Ground at 3 pm.If you cannot take part in the rally then
directly reach Ramlila Ground at 4:30 pm.Join it.Remember,Its Now or Never.YOUTH FOR EQUALITY
@Dheeman : Abhi ... I admire your passion against reservation and I do aggree that premier institutes such as IITs and AIIMS should not have any reservation. But I think there is an underlying issue here that one should not forget. That is the reservations are introduced due to backward classes not getting the right opportunities. We have been lucky to have brought up in an urban environment where we had the freedom to choose without much social pressure. I think that some colleges (which are considered to be the best) should not have any reservations and certainly no college on a PG level but on Bachelors level all the regional colleges should have some amount of reservation to all for the ppl who have not had good opportunities. Remember whether they can cope up with the pressure and studies in a good college is a separate debate anyways. Hope you guys remember to take these things into account when you go for a protest. And sorry for this preachy long scrap.
@Mayank : About the reservation issue.... i know i do not know all the facts about the matter but I just wanna say 1 thing about what our very own Mr. D wrote abt reservation .... I agree with dheeman's point that many ppl in india do not get the right oppurtunity but I dont believe that has anything to do with caste ..... it's more of the economic aspect of the person ...... are'nt there poor ppl from the so called upper caste who do not get the right oppurtunities.
Also .... my personal opinion is that this is just a vote bank issue for congress and nothing else ...... otherwise why not try and resolve this issue at the root level ..... if they are genuinely worried about the backward classes then why not start with giving them good education at the school level .... why not have a quota system in all the private schools like DPS and all ..... the only reason i can think of is that because you have to be 18 to vote and by that age you have already passed the 12th standard so that does'nt help our political parties at all.
@Saurabh : to counter dheeman's scrap, I would like to point out a few facts. Before I launch into this attack, let me state that I do believe some form of reservations should exist, though definitely not at the college level. Also reservations should be based on a financial criteria, and not according to your ancestors. Currently, its almost like a perverted form of monarchy, where the title is passed on from generation to generation Reservations were supposed to be a stopgap policy, and were supposed to be phased out over a period of time when India progressed. India has progressed, albeit slowly, and more ppl have access to resources than before. It therefore defies logic that instead of the number of OBCs reducing, they are increasing. In 1947
there were some 2000 odd OBC. In 2006 there are 3000+ OBCs...and some of them were
added in the last decade. This points to one of 2 facts - that either this all is nothing but a cheap and well paying election gimmick, or that we are all living a big lie of india.
Moving forward. Secondly, even if the government does increase the quota, doesn't that sound the death knell for almost all educational institutions? because if the number of seats are increased to "accomodate" the general students, are currently strained educational resources would not be able to cope anymore. And the end result would be a stream of graduates from the reserved and general categories, who struggle to learn in overcrowded classes, taught by non-existent faculty, to learn the skills with which they are supposed to survive in life. Tell me, who wins in this scenario?
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......It hasn't ended here....just about now ...this debate is still very much 'ON'....even as I take a 'time-out' to create this special post for this special BLOG.
